Sandra-sama, Thank you very much for allowing us this interview. We are reading your work on a regular basis and glad to have met with you several times. Your insight on the topic of 'hāfu' is tremendously important to the more and more globalizing Japan as well as the whole world, and the gaikokujin (foreigners) can learn a lot from it as well.
- Please introduce yourself as well as your work to our readers.
読者の皆さんに向けて、自己紹介と携わってきたお仕事をご紹介してください。
こんにちは。サンドラ・ヘフェリン（Sandra Haefelin）と申します。南ドイツ・ミュンヘン出身で日本歴17年です。日本語とドイツ語の両方が母国語です。自身が日独ハーフであることから、「ハーフと日本のいじめ問題」、「ハーフと海外のいじめ問題」、「バイリンガル教育について」など、「多文化共生」をテーマに執筆活動をしております。ホームページ「ハーフを考えよう」も運営しています。著書に「ハーフが美人なんて妄想ですから！！」（中公新書ラクレ）、「満員電車は観光地！？」（流水りんことの共著／ＫＫベストセラーズ） 、「日本人、ここがステキで、ここがちょっとヘン。」（片桐了との共著／大和出版）など！
Hello, my name is Sandra Haefelin. I come from Munich, in the southern part of Germany. I consider both Japanese and German to be my mothertongue. Since I myself am a Japanese-German hāfu, I have published many works centered on the theme of multiculturalism with examples of, “The issue of bullying for hāfus in Japan”, “Bullying in foreign countries for hāfus” and “Bilingual education”. I also manage a website called “Thinking in the mindsets of hāfus”. Furthermore I have other works titled “Labeling all hāfus as beautiful is a delusion!!”, “A crowded train in Japan is an attraction for tourists!?”, “This is nice and this is a bit weird about Japanese people” and more! - What is a hāfu?
「ハーフ」とは何だと思われますか。
「ハーフとは何か」は、まさに私がここ数年一生懸命考えてきたテーマです。日本との「ハーフ」の場合、単純に言ってしまうと「ハーフは日本人の親と、外国人の親との間に生まれた人間」ということなのでしょうが（笑） ただ、人生いろいろであるように、人間もいろいろ、そして「ハーフ」もまたいろいろなのです。 「ハーフは何か」について答えを出すのは、「日本人とは何か」について答えを出すのと同じぐらい難しいかもしれません。たとえば、「日本人とは何か」を考えた時、法律上は「日本国籍を持った人が日本人」です。でも実際問題、金髪碧眼の人が日本国籍を持っていても、周囲はその人を「日本人」とは見なさないことが多いです。周囲に「日本人であること」と認めてもらうためには「日本人風の容姿」も求められるわけですが、では、まっすぐな黒髪で日本人風の顔立ちをしていれば、即日本人かというと、もちろんそうではありません。日本に限らずアジア圏には「真っすぐな黒髪」の人は沢山いますが、彼らが全員日本人というわけではないですからね。では、「日本語が話せるから日本人」かと聞かれれば、それだけでもやっぱり日本人ではないわけです。日本風の柔らかな物腰の人が日本人かと言うと、そうかもしれないし、そうではないかもしれない。となると、「何をもって日本人と言うのか」は実は定義が非常に難しいんですよね。同じ事が「ハーフ」にも言えると思います。
To clearly define the meaning of hāfu, is a theme I have been investing a lot of time on for the last couple of years. For individuals with Japanese parents on one side, perhaps it can be simplified as “someone born from both Japanese and foreign parents”. However, like there is variation to people’s lifestyles and us people, there is variation to those who are hāfus. To define what it means to be a hāfu is likely to be as difficult as evaluating those characteristics which distinguish an individual as japanese. For example, under the law, to be japanese is defined by having japanese citizenship. However, in reality it is often the case that citizenship is not a determining factor, people with blond hair and blue eyes with a japanese nationality are often not identified with other japanese people. To be considered japanese by those around you, it is required to have those looks as a japanese. But then it can be asked, does it then automatically mean that one is japanese when you have straight black hair and have japanese facial features? The answer is clearly a no. Simply because while there are many individuals with straight black hair in Asia, they are not all Japanese. But if you are asked whether being able to speak Japanese identifies one as Japanese, again this is not the only characteristic. Japanese people perhaps could be identified based on the soft and indirect way of speech and the way they present themselves in their attitude. Therefore it can be stated that the baseline to categorise those who are Japanese from those who aren't is very difficult. I think the same conclusion can be applied to the concept of hāfus. - In your book "Labeling all hāfus as beautiful is a delusion!!」 you categorize the hāfu. Could you explain those types please?
あなたは「ハーフが美人なんて妄想ですから！」において、ハーフを分類しています。それぞれのタイプを説明して頂けますか？
The following explanation is an extract from pages 8 to 10 in the book, “Labeling all hāfus as beautiful is a delusion!! （中公新書ラクレ）
I. 理想ハーフ
マトリックスの右上にいるのは、理想のハーフ。語学が堪能で見た目も美しい人たち。代表は滝川クリステル。純ジャパが「ハーフって・・・・・」と妄想するハーフの理想型。もちろん、理想だから、あまり多くはない。モテる。 ママもパパも家柄がよく、金持ちであることが多い。というのも、バイリンガル教育はそれはそれはお金がかかるので。また、お金持ち男は美人の奥さんを選ぶことが多いので、財力だけでなく、美貌も継承。ハーフが遭うはずのいじめにも遭わず大学を卒業し、大学卒業後はその語学能力と両親の人脈を使って、給与も評判もよい企業に入る。もしくは親や本人の華やか人脈を使い、自分でビジネスを立ち上げる。庶民ハーフには純ジャパより縁遠き存在。
The ideal hāfus
Christel Takigawa is an example of what is regarded as an ideal hāfu, holding both beauty and outstanding abilities in the field of languages. While popular and favored by opposite sexes, to encounter a hāfu in this category is rare. Usually born from parents of wealthy backgrounds since bilingual education requires money. Ideal hāfus are likely to graduate from universities without becoming the target for bullying which is experienced by majority of the hāfus. They often work for a well known and well paid company using connections from parents and their individual language abilities. Other options include starting up a company of their own using their surrounding connections.
II. 顔だけハーフ
マトリックスの右下にいるのは、顔だけハーフ。容姿は目をみはるほど美しいが、日本でドメスティックに成長したため、使える言語は日本語オンリー。親の財力が外国人学校入学の条件に満たなかったからか、日本の学校でのびのび育ってほしかったからか、単に本人が勉強しなかったのかは人による。美貌を活かして、俳優、モデル、キャンペーンガール、など華やか世界で活躍することも。しかし、その外国人風の容貌から、純ジャパから「英語できる？」「英語教えて」と言われその度に「日本語しか話せません」と返答するのが苦痛。劣等感がズキズキ。日本で育ったんだから、日本語だけしか話せないこともある。
Hāfus but only the appearance
While their looks are gorgeous, because they were raised domestically in Japan, their language abilities are limited to Japanese. Perhaps because the parents could not afford the educational fees for international schools or because the child did not study enough or because they wanted to let their child grow up at ease depends on the individual. Careers advantageous to those who hold beauty, such as models, actors/actress and campaign girls are pursued. The assumptions that others hold of them of being able to speak English simply based on their appearance is bitter. If they had the option, they would like to scream, “Nothing is different between you (Japanese people raised in Japan) and me! There are cases where hāfus only speak Japanese when raised in Japan!”
III. 語学だけハーフ
マトリックスの左上に上にいるのは、語学だけハーフ。日本語も外国語も自由に操れるが、容姿が普通の人たち。親が唯一残してくれた「語学力」を武器いなんとか生きていく。言葉ができれば、住む国や仕事の選択肢が広がりチャンスも広がる。そのため、海外に飛び出し通訳や大学の研究職など堅めの職業につく。また専門の能力が加わっていればトレーダーとして活躍することも。自分の能力にかなりの自身を持っているが、出会う純ジャパの「ええ！ハーフなの！？（「かわいくなくて残念」と思っていることモロバレ）」という反応が悩み。ほっといてくれ。
Hāfu with language abilities but...
The abilities these hāfus have for Japanese and other foreign languages is contradictory to their appearances and they look just like other ordinary Japanese people. These hāfus survive on their skill of language ability which was developed by their parents. Language abilities create greater options for career choices as well as countries and cities to reside in. Hāfus that are multilingual enjoy exploring the world, pursue careers that are rather fixed, with given examples such as translators and researchers. Working as traders is not rare, given that they have additional expertise. While confident in their skills and abilities, the reactions taken by “pure-Japanese” people of being surprised that they have the language abilities of hāfus but do not hold the beauty of stereotypical hāfus makes them want to say, “Leave me alone!”
IV. 残念なハーフ
マトリックスの左下にいるのは、残念なハーフ。純ジャパの考える「ハーフ特権」、すなわち美形でバイリンガルをいずれも満たしていない人たち。「ハーフなのに・・・・・（かわいくない・英語を話せない）」連続攻撃に日々心を痛める。フリーで稼ぐほどの能力や機会に恵まれなければ、就職活動にも苦労する傾向がある。語学力のない外国人顔のハーフに世間の風邪は冷たい。海外に出て行きたいけど、語学力が・・・・・と八方ふさがり。いっそ純ジャパになりたい。
The “unfortunate” hāfu
As the title implies, these hāfus do not have either the beauty or the bilingualism, characteristics which was assumed to define hāfus. Feeling distressed by being reminded that even though they are hāfus, they cannot speak multiple languages and do not stand out amongst others in appearances and have nothing special. It is common for these unfortunate hāfus to experience difficulty when looking for work especially because society is strict for those individuals with hāfu appearances but lack the ability to speak foreign languages. While it appears that they could go abroad, considering their language abilities… they question, “Why can’t I just become a “pure-Japanese”.” - Concerning finding work in Japan, are many hāfu facing difficulties getting permanent work? How about your own experience for example?
ご自身の経験談を例に、ハーフの方々は日本で定職を見つけるのは困難だとお考えですか。
Yes, clearly there is variation from person to person but it is also true that hāfus often have difficulties when searching for work. This is simply because the examiner is easily influenced by the examinee’s appearance. For example, imagine there was a hāfu with a Japanese mother and a French father. This child’s parents divorced when the child was around 3 years old and therefore the individual was raised in Japan, attended Japanese primary, middle and high school and attended university. Communication at home with her/his mother was in Japanese with minimal English but no French. However, even with a curriculum vitae that has been given prior to the interview clearly describing how this hāfu has been educated in Japan at all education levels, it is very often the case that the examinee’s foreign looks changes the examiner’s expectation of the examinee. Hence, inappropriate questions such as, “Can you read Kanji?” are raised by the examiner. Since examiners base their judgement of hāfus on their appearance rather than what is stated on the resume, while logically, it is very unlikely that an individual who was educated in Japanese schools from primary through high school and graduated from a Japanese university to be unable to read Kanji, such questions are asked. Moreover although the individual’s ability to speak French or English is not written on their curriculum vitae, it also frequently happens that these hāfus are assumed to be multilingual.
そうですね。人にもよりますが、ハーフの場合、就職活動で苦労する場合も多いです。理由はズバリ面接官が「容姿」に左右されがちだから。たとえば、日本人の母親とフランス人の父親を持つハーフがいたとします。両親は子供（ハーフ）が3歳ぐらいの頃に離婚していて、子供は日本で育ち、日本の小学校・中学校・高校・大学に行った。家（母親）との会話は日本語で、フランス語は話せない、英語は少々。ところが、「小学校から大学までずっと日本の学校を出ている」と書かれた履歴書を事前に企業に提出していても、イザ面接会場に入ると、面接官が、応募者のその「外国人風の容姿」に影響されてしまうことが少なくありません。そのため面接者がハーフに対して「漢字は読めますか？」なんてことを聞いてしまうわけです。日本の小中高、そして大学まで出ていて漢字が読めないなんてことはないはずなのですが、応募書類を読むよりも応募者の「見た目」で判断してしまった結果ですね。また履歴書には書いていないのに、面接官の思い込みから「フランス語ができるはず」「英語ができるはず」と判断されてしまうことも少なくありません。 また日本の教育を受けていて、それ相当の資格を持っていても、たとえば欧米人風の顔立ちのハーフが例えば中学校の国語の先生になろうとしたら、これもまた難しいことが多いです。時には「どうして、英語ではなく国語を教えようと思ったんですか。」なんて質問をされたりもするわけです。その根底には「外国風の容姿をした人は全員外国人のはず。英語を話すはず。」という思い込みがあります。よって、欧米風の容姿をしたハーフが「国語の先生」を志望すると、周りが戸惑うわけですね。そして周りが戸惑う事に、ハーフ本人も戸惑うわけです。・・・色々と難しいですよね。
Furthermore, hāfus educated in Japan holding qualifications adequate for certain levels hoping to pursue a career as a Japanese linguistic teacher at a middle school are often faced with difficulties due to their western facial features. They are sometimes questioned why they (hāfus) chose to teach Japanese linguistics instead of English. These thoughts are raised because assumptions such as “People who look foreign must be all foreigners. They must speak English” exist. Thus, when hāfus with western appearances apply for positions as Japanese Linguistics Teachers, people around them become puzzled. And hāfus themselves also become confused to see the reaction of others. - By introducing the system of Internships to Japan, we want to help making a new way for all people. Once interning at a company, their true talents and potential will be exposed and we believe that many more of them will get hired because of that. What do you think about that?
私たちインターンシップジャパンは日本に新しいインターンシップの形を導入したいと考えています。インターンシップの経験を通じて、自分の今まで気がつかなかった能力や可能性が芽生え、現在よりもより多くの人が職に就けると信じています。サンドラさんはどのようにお考えですか。
そうですね。面接「のみ」よりインターンシップのほうが長い期間をかけて本人の能力を見る事ができますので、双方にとって良い形だと思いますね。
Good question. I believe that it is a better form for both the company and the individual because rather than judging the individual from a single interview, an internship provides an opportunity to observe the individual over a longer period. - Have you ever been an intern yourself? If yes, tell us about your experience.
あなたご自身はインターンシップの経験はありますか。もしあったら、その経験についてお話頂たいです。
私自身はインターンはしたことはございません。 No, I do not have the experience of being an intern myself.
あなたご自身はインターンシップの経験はありますか。もしあったら、その経験についてお話頂たいです。 - How would you describe to Japanese people what an Internship in the western meaning is and how it is different from Kenshuu?
あなたは日本人に欧米で理解されているインターンシップの意味をどのように説明しますか？又、それは「研修」とはどのように異なるのでしょうか。
欧米スタイルの「インターン」は日本でいう研修とはまた違った形であることが多いですね。もちろん場合によるでしょうけど、欧米のインターンシップの場合、比較的会社の内部まで見せてくれることも多いですし、そこでインターンをしている本人も会社に色んな仕事に携わる事ができるので、大学で本を開いて勉強しているよりも実用的な経験が得られると思います。
It is often the case that what is considered to be an ‘intern’ in the western style is different from the system of ‘kenshuu’ in Japan. Of course, it is different from case to case but in western styles, interns are given the opportunity to engage in various projects and are relatively invited to the core of the company and thus are able to gain practical experience which is not provided at universities when studying from books. - Should Japanese youngsters intern abroad? If so, why?
若い日本人の人々が外国でインターンシップをすることについて、どのようにお考えですか。
そうですね、日本の若い人が外国でインターンをするのはとても良い経験になるでしょうね。まず言葉はもちろん、外国人に囲まれた職場を経験してみることで、見えてくることが必ずあるからです。世の中グローバルになってきていると言われていますけれども、インターンはその「グローバル」を自分の目でじかに見る良いチャンスなのでぜひ活かしてほしいですね。
Yes, I think it would be a extremely valuable experience for young Japanese people to intern in foreign countries. Not only to develop language skills but because working in an environment where one is surrounded by multicultural people will change how one perceives things. Although it is often said that the world is becoming more global, internships provide the opportunity to experience this sense of ‘becoming global’ with their own experience. I would like Japanese youngsters to engage and make this opportunity valuable. - Do you have any advice for mixed families in Japan, young couples included?
日本に住んでいる国際結婚の方々、若いカップルの方々も含んで、アドバイスはありますか。
国際結婚をしたカップルで子供がいる場合、お互いの立場が全然違うことを親が意識する必要があるかと思います。例えば日本に住む、日本人女性とドイツ人男性のカップルで子供がいる場合は、日本人女性は「日本にいる日本人の立場」つまりはある意味「地元の人」という立場ですね。そしてドイツ人男性は「日本にいる外国人」の立場です。その子供である「ハーフ」は、このどちらでもなかったりします。ハーフの子供は日本人（たとえば周りの子供）からは「外国人」と見られやすいです。でも、もちろん、日本で育つハーフは文化的にも国籍の面でも「外国人」ではないことも多く、そこは「日本人」なんですよね。ところが周囲からは中々日本人とは認めてもらえない。・・・そんな葛藤をハーフは抱く事が多いですから、親は「分かったつもり」にならないで、「自分達とは違う立場にいる『ハーフ』の子が話す悩み」にキチンと耳を傾けてほしいですね。
For those who have an international marriage and children, I think it is important for the parent to recognize that their point of view are very different. Say there was a mixed marriage couple with a Japanese wife and a German husband living in Japan with a child. For the Japanese wife, she is likely to have a local point of view as she is a Japanese individual living in Japan. Contrastingly, the point of view of the German husband would be a foreigner living in Japan as he is living abroad. The child of this mixed marriage couple could be neither. Hāfus are easily seen as ‘foreigners’ by other Japanese people such as the people around them. Though they have difficulty being regarded as Japanese from the people around them, hāfus who are raised in Japan identify themselves more closely as ‘Japanese’ in both cultural and nationality respects rather than as ‘foreigners’. Hāfus often experience this kind of conflict and therefore I think it is important for parents not to assume the child will experience the same conflicts the parents had. Just listen carefully to the troubles their children are having as a "hāfu". - What do you think the young generation, hāfu or not, should do for sure?
若い世代の人々がハーフか、ハーフじゃないかに関係なくするべきことはなんだと思いますか。
そうですね、あまり見た目などにこだわらず、その人「個人」の性格や能力をお互い見つめあうことでしょうか。
Hmm, perhaps rather than to obsess about looks and appearances, they should emphasize and look over each other’s individual personalities and abilities? - Since you know both worlds, and can translate between them, we would love to ask you many more questions, but instead, just give us your message to both of them. How would we do better in becoming ONE world?
あなたは日本人の視点も、ハーフの視点も両方持っていらっしゃるので、他にも色々お伺いしたいのですか、最後に私たちがひとつになるために何を変えれば良いと思いますか。
宮本エリアナさんの例を見ていてもわかるように、日本人も多様化しています。なので、あとはそれを受け入れるだけ！「あれ？本当は、こうなのに。」とか「本当は、こうな『はず』なのに」という考えをいったん捨ててみるのもいいかもしれません。
As one can tell from the example of Ariana Miyamoto, Japanese people are becoming more diverse. Therefore the following step would simply be to accept! Abandoning thoughts such as “Oh wait, it’s supposed to be that” or “It ought to be that” could perhaps be an advice. - How could we as Internship Japan do better, what would you like us to do?
インターンシップジャパンが出来ることはどのような事だと思いますか。
やはり本人の能力や性格を重視することです！ よろしくお願いします！サンドラ
Definitely to put emphasis on the abilities or personalities of individuals! Best regards! Sandra
Translated into English by Shoko Kuroda (Intern)